make a better condom, and it will give you a hundred thousand dollars to do so. no kidding. one that is a better condom and feels better. if you win the whole thing you get a million dollars. why? because they want to prevent disease. that makes a lot of sense. that connects a lot of our stories from today together. we'll have a lot more on that and how bloombergs is going after democrats and republicans on gun control on tonight's show online. you'll have all of these stories broken down story by story, clip by clip. later tonight at 9:00 eastern on "the young turks" do -- do -- turkoglu.com we'll have another show for you. and "viewpoint" is next.
john: wane lapierre called mayor bloomberg in said, which is like leonard cohen calling your songs depressing. the democrats passed a budget. the republicans think it's horrible and will like it less once they've read it. there's controversy about the today show airing the sandusky interview footage. they can blame it on ann curry. shades the birthday of the great aretha franklin and sir elton john and baseball hero lee
mislewy. are years abjohnny cash recorded ring of fire. he said it was about the human heart. his wife said it was about a lower part of female fat me. this is "viewpoint." ♪ theme ♪ >> good evening i'm john fugelsang, this is "viewpoint." since the tag ban fled afghanistan in december, 2001, some horrible human rights abuses have taken place in prisons inside that country. nearly half the prisoners have said they were tortured and held in places with nicknames like the black jail and salt pit. the good news about the bad news? today, the u.s. government finally got out of the prison business in afghanistan transferring control of the prison and afghan prisoners at
bagram. the ceremony took place after secretary of state john kerry met with the afghan president. karzai accused the u.s. recently of company lookedding with the taliban to undermine his government. he insisted as a matter of nothing samplety that the u.s. seized control of the prison and it's prisoners. the u.s. has been reluctant to give up control prisoners included taliban leaders. with president obama planning to end the u.s. combat role by the end of 2014 and the new security deal and an afghan president still pending kerry said this: >> you i think stand on the brisk of a remarkable legacy for
having brought afghanistan through an amazingly difficult time. i believe that the roadmap ahead is going to be very clear and constructive. john: what happens to the prisoners who were tortured and those still held. we are joined by glenn grenwold. what a pleasure to have you back on the show. >> great to be back. >> the prison, what kind of place is it, what human rights abuses have taken place there and how is the u.s. supposed to be involved? >> it's as heinous a facility as any that the united states have maintained over the course of the last decade that have received more attention, abu ghraib organ tan mow. we know very little, because it has been shrouded with secrecy on the courts accepted the arguments that there's no judicial review allowed there
even though there is at guantanamo, because it's in the middle of the war zone. there are a lot of human rights reports of system take torture abuse of prisoners. something that's taken place under president obama, so it's been a heinous place in all sorts of ways. john: none of this has helped the american's popularity with the afghan people. notorious prisons like the black jail and salt pit, do we know if they're closed as well? our abuses said to be going on in other places or is bagram ground zero for prisoner torture? >> the perception of the afghans is anywhere the americans obtain afghan prisoners there's been abuse. there are lots of people on the ground in afghanistan that have said that other than killing people innocent people, that our prison network the way it's abused prisoners putting people
in prison with new due process has turned the population to the taliban against the united states. it's a little unclear in terms of detail. certainly the bulk of the prison network is turned over to afghan control. that is good news. there seems to be some retention of plus nurse probably foreign prisoners under u.s. control, as well as a deal, a sort of informal deal between the american-afghan government and military that certain prisoners that the americans consider particularly dangerous won't be reds even if there's to way to convict them in a court. that had been the dispute between the government ironically is that the afghans were insisting on due process the americans didn't want that. it seems there is an informal deal in government at least with some of these that concern the americans. >> "the new york times" said the u.s. considers those prisoners enduring security threats. they have been held under administrative detention. we hold them in custody without a trial for up to 10 years.
glenn, what do you think happens to those people now? >> well, the presumably a lot of them are going to be released by the afghans if they are in fact turned over to the afghanistan system. there has been this ongoing dispute for several years. we're in afghanistan saying we want to bring freedom and democracy, the of a fans are saying we cannot allow you to hold our sit accepts in cages without charging them with a crime. they've insisted that people that cannot be convicted in a court be released, either be tried or released. it's supposed to be an american value of justice. it seems there will be a few dozen prisoners whom the afghans have agreed to keep in prison, but if they're released by the afghan military, there's no recourse for the united states and of course the united states have done an excellent job making sure anybody we abuse torture or unjustly imprison have no recourse.
the government doesn't consider itself subject to the law. there is no remedy for people wrong. >> the politics of this are fascinating. chuck hagel only got the job and to have karzai accuse america of being inclusion with the taliban and john kerry flies in, it seems this has been rather prearranged and the u.s. has a stake in getting karzai reelected. do you think this agreement was part of a political decision by the obama administration to bolster karzai before the vote? >> sure. everybody is in a difficult political decision. karzai knows the americans are leaving and he needs to make sure that he has some base within his citizenry of popularity, showing them that he's willing to stand up to the americans because of how unpopular the americans are in afghanistan after a decade plus
of a brutal and bloody war. the appearance, of course, want to make sure whoever runs afghanistan is subject to american influence. we don't want to have spent all that money and all those lives in the last decade plus trying to control afghanistan only for someone very hostile to take over including the taliban. there's maneuvering going on between karzai and the united states and taliban jockeying for position and seeing who is going to influence once the americans start withdrawing. >> glenn green wells wold, thanks for coming on the program. >> the 10th average of the biggest foreign policy disaster since the vietnam war the start of the iraq invasion and occupation. since we know how it turned out no surprise that some of the media figures and poll advertises and reporters who hyped the war in 2003 actually
apologized for making that mistake, if not necessarily for the thousands of americans and tens of thousands of iraqis who died. and then, there's the washington post. the editorial page beat the war drums loudly before, during and after the war began. in 2004, the post's media are the oar counted more than 140 stories the paper ran before the war that gave the bush administration's party line on the front page while burying any objections inside around page 18. now, that may sound like a fail u. to you it does to me. after the post commissioned a piece by writer greg mitchell about media failures, it clearly had second thoughts about putting that in print. for more, i'm delighted to be joined by greg mitchell. greg, thank you so much for joining us. >> thank you john. >> you sound terrific.
now, you would seem to be the perfect person to write an outlook story on the media's failures on the run up to the iraq war. it's worth pointing out the media is equally to blame as the politicians. why did they tell you they killed your piece? >> they said it didn't have enough new insights and analysis. of course, i disagreed and i did post the rejected story on line over the weekend so people can judge themselves. i don't know if that was the real reason. certainly a lot of people have joined in on line to claim that it was because the post was performing so poorly running up to the war and my piece mentioned names among nails. it was a piece about the general media failure the post was part of it, but i guess i would invite people to read both pieces and make up their own mind. >> you didn't really say anything especially tough about
the post war coverage, right? >> i did but it was part of the mix. as you pointed out, there is so much blame to go around, it's hard not to cavity a wide net and i certainly did in that piece, so it was not really focused on the post, but the post coverage was bad. they admitted it themselves sometime ago but as we saw in the past week, with all this 10th anniversary coverage, you mentioned there were some pal jesus. i thought there were very few actually, and they were quite weak, a lot of places didn't mention anything about the coverage, or much of anything, but the 10th anniversary came, but i was actually disappointed in the general reaction. >> let's talk about that. how would you divide up last week's mea culpas? >> some of them sort of said the right things or started to, or admitted that they had been
wrong. i mean, it was hard to do otherwise. how could you come out and say i was right, you know? almost everyone would then go into the litany of excuses faulty intelligence or we're only as good as our sources. actually it's not true that everybody was saying the same thing. it's the same kind of excuses now it doesn't extend how to with a little bit of yes i got it wrong but i didn't see many heartfelt apologies or anything like that, especially considering the, you know, the tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands who died because of the war. >> of course. >> you think there would be a little more expression of, you know regret. >> we talked extensively about that on this show about 10s of millions of americans who were against it, who listened to the u.n. weapons specialists. war is great for selling newspapers, you'll always see a
retired general on the air as opposed to a howard zene. was there any mainstream immediate he i can't outlet that you think handled the run up to the war in a respectable manner? >> what's often cited rightly was the knight ridder bureau, whose reporters did not rely on the usual sources unnamed in tells sources. they went out and dug around, so actually were much closer to the truth on what happened. sometimes you had to go to sources in england and europe. there were hundreds of thousands of people in the streets. there also were, you know, a lot of people who editor ally urged caution. it was by no means, you know, a vast majority of people who were ready to go to war when we went to war and there were some media people who did well. i've covered this for 10 years you.
mentioned my book, the book actually covers the whole 10 year period that talks about other mistakes the media made over time, not just at the beginning, and, you know, that's it -- as you know, the war did go on for quite a while and that wasn't just over in a flash. >> well, greg, those of us who knew it was wrong back then are in debted to you and everyone who did try to warn the american people. where can people read your piece that the post didn't run? >> it's posted in the nation where i write every day it's at my blog, called pressing issues. if you put my name in and pressing issues, you'll find that and other issues out this month. my back is out as an e book, so everything is in there and updated, as well. >> fantastic. great to have you on the program. >> thank you john. >> great news, for the first time since president obama took office, the senate has passed the budget. i don't really know what has means, but robert rice is here
you know who is coming on to me now? you know the kind of guys that do reverse mortgage commercials? those types are coming on to me all the time now. (vo) she gets the comedians laughing and the thinkers thinking. >>ok, so there's wiggle room in the ten commandments, that's what you're saying. you would rather deal with ahmadinejad than me. >>absolutely. >> and so would mitt romney. (vo) she's joy behar. >>and the best part is that current will let me say anything. what the hell were they thinking?
john: it's time for our thing of the day. today's it's our congressional derangement of the day. congressman michele bachmann's presidential campaign of 2012 is under investigation by the office of congressional ethics for campaign finance violations. it remains to be seen if this investigation will distract her from the pretend make believe fantasy investigations into obamacare killing people and obama's five air force one chefs and $200 million a day for the president to visit india and the obama dog walker going on inside her own head. since this investigation is taking place on the planet earth, we're not shove congressman bachmann is going to hear about it. >> for the first time, the democratically controlled senate passed a federal budget doctor president obama's tenure. it has no chance of passing the gop house. it was passed at 5:00 a.m.
saturday morning by 50-49. four democrats voted against it and one abstained. republicans wasted no time in attacking it. according to a statement by senator jeff sessions, the content of the plan, the majority has now approved demonstrates why they were unwilling to revile it for so long. as the budget wars wage on, president obama is expected to sign a resolution this week to keep the government funded throughout september. that locks into place the much-hated and did he say speed sequester, meaning there will be a lot of pain to go along with the sure to be drown out budget process. lets bring in robert reich his best selling e book, beyond outrage is now available in paper back. it is required reading. welcome back to the show. >> good evening. >> how big a deal is it that the
senate democrats actually passed a budget for the first tile in four years? >> i think it's very important symbolically. the democrats have been talking about a budget for years. they do need to actually produce one so that they can point to it and say these are our priorities, we want to get rid of for example corporate welfare. we want to address an overbloated military and get rid of a lot of excess in the military. we want to raise taxes on the wealthy, we want to make investments in education, and job training, and infrastructure and basic research and development and don't want to imposed a huge burden on the poor and working class. at least we have a budget now and at least democrats now can show that deficit reduction can be done responsible. responsibly. >> the lack of a bunt has been an effective talking point for republicans. why do you think they haven't
reached an agreement? >> because they're democrats. they have a hard time reaching an agreement about anything. that's why they're democrats. the progressive caucus shows that it is possible to reduce the budget deficit by taking even more away from big corporations reducing corporate welfare to an even larger extent reigning in tax loopholes, and so-called tax expenditures. the democratic budget and senate budget is a very good place to begin. i think the progressive caucus's budget is much better. >> analysts are saying this budget is to the left of obama. many on the left would say we should have expected that. does this give the president the opportunity to bring people together and get some sort of grand bargain by throwing things less liked under the bus. >> there is not going to be a grand bargain.
the right wing controls the republican party. the tea party is in control of the republicans. the tea party if it stands for anything, it's not raising taxes on the rich. they want to shrink government and there's no way that the president can sign into or on a grand bargain unless there are tax increases on the rich or unless loopholes are closed for the rich with regard to all sorts of loopholes that they depend on, such as mitt romney's carried interest loophole for private equity managers. >> or carbon tax could help with it or closing some of the loop hopes governor romney talked about in very loose terms. the balanced budget doesn't ever balance out. no gop approximate the has balanced the budget since nixon. is this a fair i didn't six from our republican friends? >> no, they have in the balanced any buts. bill clinton and the republicans in congress balanced the budget,
but that's because the economy was growing in 1990s. i was there, i know it. it was balance -way before anybody expected it to be balanced. there is nothing that is particularly important about balancing the budget. it sounds good, but you don't really want the budget to be balanced if you have a lot of people who are unemployed or under utilize examines city. there's no reason to balance the budgets on the backs of the poor and if it means sacrificing investments in education job training, research and development, infrastructure. those are investments in future growth, the future of our country. we don't want to reduce those investments for the sake of some totem which is called balanced budgets. >> you pointed out to the gop leadership is held hostage by the tea party. when john boehner said we don't have a long term debt problem in this country it seemed he and president obama agreed to tone down the rhetoric to calm people a a bit. were you encouraged by that statement? >> i am encouraged in the sense
that there is not a long term debt problem. there's a health care problems that underlies a lot of the concern about medicare. medicare actually could be a solution to the long term health care bucket problem because medicare's much more officials. if we used medicare and made it available to all people, we actually would have a way of bringing down that cost curb, health care increase that is going to cripple the entire economy. >> single pair would save the economy, but you the would hurt the insurers and that can't happen. cypress securing a bailout are there any events we can learn? >> one is that when you live by the idea that you are going to be an economy based upon tax avoidance, which is exactly what had cyprus has done, you can die
by the same principle. capitol can slosh in and slosh out as fastly as it sloshes in. the financial sector of our economy, europe's economy and the world economy is based on trust. that is paper thin, not just in cyprus and europe, but in the united states. if you look at what j.p. morgan has been doing to erode the trust of borrowers investors it hangs by a thread. a trust can be broken down anywhere along the line. >> indeed. they are getting taxed now in cyprus. thank you sir. >> thank you john. >> we kick off another week of our critically acknowledged series with tennessee, the home of davy crockett, doll loy parton and a former senator who became vice president and then did some things that made him very unpopular.
john: welcome back. it's time for w.t.f. america and our w.t.f. america series continues with a whole week of w.t.f. tennessee stories. now tennessee is the home of nashville, so it's a little bit country and a whole lot of w.t.f. as "the new york times" reported today, two nights a year, residents of tennessee can call a hot line and if they get through, they might qualify for something called 10 care. it's like tennessee's version of medicare. it's the kind of everyday health care available to citizens of most nations except this one the united third word state of america. people call all night to try to get health care. that what could be more fun for a person in tennessee who desperately needs arthritis medication than to spend an entire night dialing a phone. this could be aleveed by
obamacare, however the republican governor and the tea party infected state legislature of tennessee oppose medicaid expansion, even though the federal government is going to pay for it for the first three years and then the federal government is going to pay 90% of it after that, so it won't cost tends hardly anything, but the gop tea party lawmakers are going to let people suffer just as a matter of principle. w.t.f. tennessee people in your state need help, help is available. why wouldn't you want to do the decent thing for your citizens, fellow americans and help them out. be the fifth caller and get basic medical care is not an acceptable policy. in reality it's not like they actually care. this is purely about political grandstanding.
>> gary sean dusky in television news, an exclusive interview is when a show is able to book a big guest right? on friday, when our friends at the today show announced an exclusive interview with jerry sandusky, you expect one of the hosts will be talking with jerry sandusky. instead, it consisted of an interview with john ziegler entitled the framing of joe paterno. no follow up questions or even context of what was said, just an open platform for a convicted child rapist. and you too thought you would catch the whole can dusky. even the paterno family found it repugnant, releasing a statement saying in part:
>> yeah, but it got ratings. let's bring in dive zirons, author of "game over." thanks for coming on and keeping it sane for us. >> great to be here, john. >> great to have you sir. did we learn anything that wasn't in either of the multi-million dollar reports on this topic? >> if aliens came down to this planet to assess whether or not the earth should remain standing or become a burnt ember if they watched that segment, we would all be toast right now. look, i am not some great watcher of the today show but know enough about television history to know names bike dave garaway, bryant gumbel, jane pauley katey couric and that
entire history of integrity and tradition, the today show producers and matt lauer threw up on it this morning. york for them, but if i did this would be one of those do i quit in protest moments. that's how bad it was. when you get a third party enter interviewer, refusing to accept the facts about what joe paterno may have done and what jerry sandusky may have done, he is spouses open sympathy for a convicted child rapist, took blow questions from matt lauer this morning just to say that he believes jerry sandusky might be guilty and might have done terrible things, and promote
that, it was build as we have ourselves an exclusive. john: exactly. >> with child rapist jerry sandusky. that on its own is bad enough. john: i want to play a very brief portion of the interview that was done with ziegler. i do want to sow what nbc paid for. here sandusky is taking the opportunity to push back against one of the main witnesses mike mcqueary and what he might have heard in the locker room:
john: now, we can shake our heads at this yeah, he was fooling around with a kid no the shower. did nbc news err in allowing a convicted child rapist to have this kind of platform on national television or in their defense, this guy is arguably the most famous person to ever go in jail for this in america was it right and credible to do? >> it was whatever the opposite of credible is. i wish i could use a word that would expression the a sidic nature of what they did to their own resultation airing this have view. i don't fault bob costas. jerry sandusky was on trial at that point. he was asked a series of tough questions.
that's an interview that you do. you don't do an interview by a third party with a convicted child rapist. you have to think about what a parallel to this would be, i mean would b.e.t. air an interview with the man who assassinated medgar evers if it was conducted by someday sympathetic to the ku klux klan? i would have loved to have been even a fly on the wall for the discussion that took place at nbc that said in some way shape or form this was a good idea, because it was a terrible idea. you know who it was really terrible for? we have to talk about the survivors of jerry sandusky's abuse. >> of course. >> because it's a known part of jerry sandusky's psychological profile about torturing these people and hard not to have the queasy feeling that in his own
mind, he is torturing them from his jail cell. there wale analysis done by licensed therapists on the statement that he made in court and about how he was going to be lying on his bunk smiling and thinking about the memories of all the children he had helped and how that was all basically code for you will never be rid of me. i will always haunt you and when you think about the idea of aiding and abetting the haunting child abuse survivors you wonder how the executives who made this news decision are going to sleep at night. john: i was going to ask you about your column about lebron james possibly returning one day to cleveland but i can't add anything and i think ending it on that note is great t.v. author of the book "game over," thank you for coming on the show. >> my pleasure, john. john: pushing for more gun control, our panel of
non-experts joins me next. now, buy one lobsterfest entree and get one 1/2 off with a coupon at redlobster.com. while your carpets may appear clean. it's scary how much dirt your vacuum can leave behind. add resolve deep clean powder before you vacuum to expel the dirt within your carpets. resolve's deep clean powder is moist. absorbing and lifting three times more dirt than vacuuming alone. leaving you with a carpet that's truly fresh and clean. don't just vacuum clean. resolve clean.
john: welcome back to viewpoint. today, we asked allall what you thought about the gop once demonizing but now beginning to embrace marriage equality. john murdoch tweeted us saying: john: yes it's a shame bigots will flee the party, but hopefully limbaugh, trump hannity and the right wing noise machine will speak to the gop base. if you have a comment for the show, tweet us, or post it on our facebook page. new york city mayor michael bloomberg, another republican is truly becoming one very powerful thorp in the n.r.a.'s overhyped out of touch side. he said he would spend $12 million to target 13 senators with a barrage of ads pressuring them to support
enormously popular universal background checks and other popular easily passed gun control measures. bloomberg and n.r.a. head wane pierre called each other out by name. >> he can say anything he wasn't but the truth of the matter is this isn't about wane lapierre. this is about the public wanting to be safe on their seats. >> he is going to find out this is a country by the people of the people and for the people and he can't spend enough of his $27 billion to impose his will on the american. >> of the people, by the people and for the people who have been very clear about sensible gun control and polls lapierre refuses to read. i'm joined now by my panel of non-experts, including ben kitzel comedian and writer for
the fx series and lee camp. thank you all so much for coming on the show this evening. lee camp, can mayor michael bloomberg really manage to take on the n.r.a. or is he biting off more than he can chew? >> it is nice to see money fighting money. it is like, i don't know, like i agree with a lot of what he's saying but at the same time, he gives them a bad name. the stuff he did against occupy, obliterating the media so they can kick occupy out. >> we're not the talking about that. >> he's created the situation where it's tough to get behind him because of things in the past. john: who's ever going to pass any politicians purity test.
this is in line with what he's done on transfats and smoking and the soda ban and health issues. john: i'm happy this had explains why the east coast has been so cold, wane lapierre brought his personality that's the main reason. i don't think bloomberg's biting off more than he can chew. the n.r.a.'s 4 million people and 22 members are in the oprah book club. as soon as he goes after white oliander, there's going to be trouble. >> in some indicates, he infringing on civil liberties to try to save health care costs. is the mayor right about this? >> on this he is. i do think those will hurt him. as red-blooded americans the only thing more dear to me than
my gun is my 28-ounce big gulp. a lot of americans agree. that will hurt him. >> you're never going to see a politician come out for the war on obesity because they're afraid of votes. you're not going to get someone to come out. michelle obama can say exercise is important. she's not going to say high fructose corn syrup's bad for you. you have people who don't want to be told that they're not normal. we're getting off track a bit. is it odd for wane lapierre, a lobbyist and head of the most powerful lobbying firm in america for 19 manufacturers for attacking mayor bloomberg for trying to influence politicians? >> i think wane's official job title is crazy uncle that you
saw at thanksgiving but didn't want to. i think that's a part of the game when the other side does the same thing to coverable against it. >> it would be like if i accused you guys are using jokes to influence a crowd or something. you use what you have, you know, ifoff got $26 billion, i would definitely use that. >> mayor blackberg is trying to save lives and that used to be called patriotic. the supreme court will take up two cases on marriage equality this week. can you see the court standing in the way of progress? >> i can't see that happening whatsoever. >> we heard chief justice roberts gay cousin is going to watch the proceedings. it seems we're at a real tipping point here and history is just speeding up. >> it would be a big step back. it's pretty much where america and the world is headed.
gay marriage isn't harming anyone. what is harming anyone is straight couples getting married and having 78 kids. if you want to have a kid over two or three it should be voted on by everybody else. that if you want to shootout 78 kids out of your assault vagina. >> gay people aren't exactly dumping off kids at the other manage. our conservative friends seem to be coming to jesus on this issue, jesus who was never once remotely homophobic ever. do you think we're going to see more and more republicans coming out of the closeted? >> i do, i'm excited about all the bowties they're going to wear. i can't wait. i do. i think it's in line with what he is saying, this is where the country and word is moving. as queer people come out of our closet and our loved ones see we're humans and not red-eyed demons, they kind of come
onboard with logic. >> i had a fight with dan savage on current about this, because i think mitt romney, a lot of homophobic conditions, i don't believe mitt romney really is homophobic. i think he's a calculating non-big got who used bigotry to get votes. same with karl rove, now coming out of the closet. we know his adopted father is believed to have been gay. what's worse exploying the big gory of others to increase your own power or being a big got? >> it's all calculations. this topic relates back to the gun topic congress can't get it passed while americans die because it's a political calculation. john: i love that you go back to the gun topic lee. brilliant. >> i think it's worse to be calculating about it, but that's the reason the tide is turning
is because of that calculation because more americans are coming onboard with gay rights and the republican party are learning that homophobic stances don't fly with post americans. >> if the gop embraces most americans, where are the haters going to go? >> you just join the tea party i guess. i feel like the republican party right now is me when i was 13 years old and listening to michael jackson's man in the mirror. i knew i had to make a change. rob portman came out like pro gay marriage, did you not say anything. right now they're mute, letting the society like sort of make their choice for them. >> it's not 2014 yet, is it? my panel stays with me, and we'll more about republican's new found love of gay marriage.
john: while i still have the panel here, one final question. of all the conservatives in the world in america who would you must like to see come out in favor of marriage equality? ben? >> i want to say michele bachmann but unfortunately i don't think that will ever happen, because if it does her husband will leave her. i'm going to say newt gingrich, because i want to see him at a gay wedding stealing all the snacks. >> he can officiate too. >> exactly. >> paul ryan, because he also looks like a honedsome jock in a fetish porn. >> paul ryan is a follower of jesus, who wasn't a homo phone. >> the guy who looks like jesus?
>> fred phelps and kenny chesney come out in support in a duet. that i think that would be great. john: you could get me in trouble if you finished that thought to its conclusion, because kenny chesney is an amazing straight country singer. >> after years of demon sizing gay marriage to get votes, karl rove is now open to marriage equality to get votes. karl rove has long been fostering fear and scorn of his fellow gay americans because that's part of the job description. in 2004, the rove controlled gop warned us constantly of a dire threat to traditional marriage and anti gay initiatives. seeing one of the greatest architects of homophobia is so exciting and tint lating, it should be described as gay porn. i wonder if it has